THE BATE-PAPO SERIES: AFRICA + BRAZIL
Brazil, Africa and Covid-19 — Class, Society, Media and Context
Hebert and Micheline hold frequent chit-chats (‘bate- papo’) about a host of social, cultural and economic topics. They are great friends, call each other irmã/irmão (sister/brother) and are both curious about culture, society and the economies of Brazil and Africa.
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“I like to know about different perspectives of life and culture, I understand the these are the most important assets of humanity, and understanding other people’s culture can promote better living as well as respect for each other. I think that Africa has been the most important human culture for centuries, and unfortunately it is always been pushed aside by European and American culture.
“My desire is to ask Micheline, one of the most intelligent people I know — she knows a lot about culture is a global businesswoman and she loves people. Today with everything happening in the World she is at the center of human history, the roots, Africa…So I’m glad to get into this conversation and share with my fellow Brazilians her point of view about today’s world, specifically about covid-19, youth and Africa.” Hebert, São Paulo
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“I love Africa -we are so important as originators, creators, creatives and resilient people…I write to understand our true and diverse narratives. Brazil is a special place — so energetic and dynamic. In many ways, I think Brazil is soulful and easily relatable to many Africans, because, well, a lot of her was made in Africa.
I enjoy speaking to Hebert because he is brilliant, he is constantly open for new adventures, he is self-made and he understands many angles of the Brazilian society and economy. He is also so curious about Africa — perhaps because he is afro-Brazilian; perhaps because he is naturally inquisitive.” Micheline, Nairobi
Brazil asks Africa (Hebert asks Miche)
Africa has always suffered epidemics for a long time; this time how is it different with covid-19? Because to me it looks like every country in the world is feeling the general problem that African countries always had.
Yes, this time it is different because the whole world has suffered. We have had major illness such as malaria and malnutrition, that still persist; and viruses like Ebola (mostly in west Africa) and HIV/AIDS across sub Saharan Africa. But this is the first time that the entire continent, and the whole world is hit by a disease. The western media loves to show pictures of Africans dying and suffering; in fact the world almost craves this kind of ‘Africa-is-hopeless news. This time it is a mystery — why aren’t Africans dying in such great numbers? I am not saying that the virus will not hit us hard — it is hitting us already, but we are not dropping in the hundreds of thousands, or the millions, as the west expects us to when it comes to disease. All I am saying is that we are not the worst of the lot and this is so mind boggling to the western world.
I studied public health so I am aware that our poor sanitation, crowded living environments and rudimentary health care all mean that we are not in the clear yet and we need to be very careful and use all the information we have to prevent the spread of the virus. I am hoping that the sunshine, previous vaccinations, and some yet-unknown-factors have protected us from Africans major morbidity rates so far.
How are Africans looking to other countries that were supposed to be better at managing covid-19 (and yet are actually in an unmanageable situation.) Is there any common sense that Africa can get from these countries?
Covid-19 has so far hit the continent in diverse ways and countries are developing their own covid-19 control approaches; you have a country like South Africa that has over 50 000 cases; Egypt and Morocco in the north have also been hit very hard; then you have some countries have only reported hundreds of cases like Mozambique and Zimbabwe. We can’t believe all the numbers all the time as most countries aren’t testing enough because we don’t have enough testing equipment— the more we test, the more we will find, I believe, except for perhaps countries like Seychelles and Mauritius that contained the spread of the virus early on (they are islands; so I think it is easier to control movement, and therefore, spread.) Rwanda had a lockdown for a little over two months; and started opening up a few weeks ago for example, with school and transportation still closed. Kenya did not have a lockdown but has a curfew from 9pm to 5am; Tanzania is in denial and the President said that there is no Covid-19 in this country, which of course is not true….then there is the reality that social distancing is only possible for middle and upper class — in poor households, you have more than 6 people living in small 1-2 bedroom house, so social distancing is not possible…..
So there is no consistent, unified approach across the continent , which is usually the case in Africa. Funny how the world sees it as one place; but the reality is that countries have proceeded very differently.
Now we see that the U.K and the U.S. are beginning to open up in June because for their most part, infection numbers were steady … I am seeing that many African countries are also beginning to open up -they may be copying the west; but mostly they are being pragmatic as people may die of starvation, the argument goes, before they die of covid-19. The economy is suffering and people need to get back to work. I hope that they do not ignore the fact that scientists are saying that our ‘peak’ will only happen later, so we need to be social distanced for a lot longer.
Africa asks Brazil (Miche asks Hebert):
Is there a big difference between how Covid 19 is affecting Black people versus White people in Brazil?
Yes this is big in terms of history, but not as usual where black people suffer more than white. The big event here is that COVID-19 is taking more white and rich people in the first period of contamination, that’s why the private hospitals are almost full. So that’s the first time that we have a ‘race- equal’ problem and need to find a solution, COVID-19 takes people no matter the race or class. And one interesting point is that in the ghetto where the majority is black and more crowded we are seeing an amazing community effort, and that is what we always had to learn when you are born black and poor, “people matter”.
What cultural aspects of Brazil might help to reduce or increase the spread of Covid 19?
Our main cultural problem is the mass information and we have major broadcasting companies delivering a lot of info focused on their interests, which are power, money, and politics. So should we reduce the information flow? Should we stop spending time on daily news and find the right info from medical professionals. Or should we just keep watching television and social media where the misinformation is winning and people are very confused? That is more dangerous than a virus, that is a lasting problem that has made our culture sick.
How are social distancing and quarantine affecting the financial stability of poor people and middle-class people in Brazil?
In the beginning, everyone worried about dying, later on, people got worried about how to live, that is why if we had a lockdown, in the beginning, we could have had a better focus for two months and, later the economic situation. As we didn’t do that, right now we have poor people tired of waiting because they never had stability — the only thing they have is the pride of being able to work. The need for food and drink will never end for poor classes -they will always have to find solutions.
To the Middle class that’s horrifying — they don’t know how to make it, without money and that includes small business owners. That is the big problem today because Brazil is a great country and we now see that some of our public support like bank and health systems are great, especially if we compare it with countries like the UK and the US. I’m just saying that because of this crisis there’s going to be tremendous learning and I hope that can be the greatest legacy of Covid-19.
Brazilians are good people, our public system always helps poor people better than other countries, but the middle classes are always complaining about their lives and are never satisfied. Poor people in Brazil just want education, food, and medical assistance, middle classes are always looking for how they can be at Disneyland again and send their kids to private schools where the separation increases our polarized culture. For the top the 1% rich families, to be honest, nobody really knows them
My point of view is that COVID-19 may be ‘good’ in that it expresses what globalization means, not only in idea but also in action — we are living in a society in which we always talk too much and do almost nothing until our garden gets some bad weeds. We made COVID-19, we created the problem and we may need to create the solution.
I will continue to express the complexity of life and decision making. It isn’t one man or woman’s fault, it is OUR (collective) fault, and we have a responsibility to see better and hear better the other side. That is why I think conversations like this are important, sharing points of view, discussing ideas, etc. Let’s see and hear the other side too. I’m glad to have my sister in Africa sharing this information with me.
More about the co authors:
Hebert Mota is a book author and business man in Brazil, well known as the Self Made “Mano”, From the ghetto of São Paulo he created his path of success in the entertainment industry. His purpose is to provoke in people an analysis of how to live with a positive mindfulness and critical thinking. Herbert inspires a lot of youth from the ghetto as he is a public speaker and supports ambitious and curious youth through his influential network.
Micheline Ntiru is fueled by the diversity and stories of people around the globe — she has grown up, and lived in, 8 countries globally, travelled to over 70 and is a polyglot. She spends a lot of her time advising businesses in Africa and completing her book of short stories. Ultimately she strives to impact positively on Africa’s economies and societies. São Paulo is one of her home towns and she currently resides in Nairobi.
